Curse

VitisVinifera · May 23, 2007, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shirosae

RE: Database hits

This website has 2.6 million posts. Posts which are considerably more complex than 'item 011010010100100100101010 25 plat user xyz'. It has 131 thousand registered users. There are 2500 people surfing here as i type. And this forum has all of the mechanics behind that - preprocessor parsing, admin control, user rights etc. That's more than an auction house needs. GWGuru manages it on a web server - probably a shared webserver at that.

The database mechanics needed to manage something of the size required already exist. I'm absolutely sure that Guild Wars server setup could easily pull off an auction house.

The issue isn't technical impossibility or difficulty. There's no way that a company able to develop a server network capable of real-time virtualising on-demand game servers hosting multiple server-builds with real-time update roll-outs and an inbuilt content delivery system is incapable of programming a series of databases to host an auction house. The problem is less complex than running a large forum like this.

The issue has got to be the time and resources required to get an auction house up and running.

nice post. makes a lot of sense. I'd just add motivation to time and resources as things anet lacks to get this off the ground

Sir Skullcrasher · May 23, 2007, 10:22 PM // 22:22

key to stop spamming... make everything customized!!

wetsparks · May 23, 2007, 10:28 PM // 22:28

This is probably what happened, ANET was made and they probably had a limited bankroll, even after they were bought by NCSoft, and to save money they didnt bother to put one in. Now that they have three games out, working on a fourth and fifth, they would not only have to program in a large complex system in games four and five, they would have to alter games one, two and three and that is a lot of money and time invested into something that doesnt bring in the consistant revinue without the monthly fee.

Rod Adams · May 23, 2007, 10:29 PM // 22:29

the auction site here would be a much better option... if it wasn't so slow.... in general, I have to plan on spending 15+ minutes per item to post, much of that time is spent searching similar auctions, and then navigating the auction post page, all of which takes roughly 30 seconds per page to load..... when it works.

Alternatively, I'd say have item trade links, but only to the party search panel. Have it where people can post say 5 items there, with suggested price.

wongba · May 23, 2007, 10:30 PM // 22:30

i would settle for a max mods/inscriptions trader like the current scroll trader. if they made it accept only max items, they'd just become commodities like all other trader items.

MSecorsky · May 23, 2007, 10:33 PM // 22:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by shirosae

RE: Database hits

This website has 2.6 million posts. Posts which are considerably more complex than 'item 011010010100100100101010 25 plat user xyz'. It has 131 thousand registered users. There are 2500 people surfing here as i type. And this forum has all of the mechanics behind that - preprocessor parsing, admin control, user rights etc. That's more than an auction house needs. GWGuru manages it on a web server - probably a shared webserver at that.

The database mechanics needed to manage something of the size required already exist. I'm absolutely sure that Guild Wars server setup could easily pull off an auction house.

The issue isn't technical impossibility or difficulty. There's no way that a company able to develop a server network capable of real-time virtualising on-demand game servers hosting multiple server-builds with real-time update roll-outs and an inbuilt content delivery system is incapable of programming a series of databases to host an auction house. The problem is less complex than running a large forum like this.

The issue has got to be the time and resources required to get an auction house up and running.

There is a HUGE difference between building basically static pages and a game streaming real time keeping synchronization between you and everyone else in a town. Monstrously huge. Very not small.

aaje vhanli · May 23, 2007, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by shirosae

RE: Database hits

This website has 2.6 million posts. Posts which are considerably more complex than 'item 011010010100100100101010 25 plat user xyz'. It has 131 thousand registered users. There are 2500 people surfing here as i type. And this forum has all of the mechanics behind that - preprocessor parsing, admin control, user rights etc. That's more than an auction house needs. GWGuru manages it on a web server - probably a shared webserver at that.

The database mechanics needed to manage something of the size required already exist. I'm absolutely sure that Guild Wars server setup could easily pull off an auction house.

The issue isn't technical impossibility or difficulty. There's no way that a company able to develop a server network capable of real-time virtualising on-demand game servers hosting multiple server-builds with real-time update roll-outs and an inbuilt content delivery system is incapable of programming a series of databases to host an auction house. The problem is less complex than running a large forum like this.

The issue has got to be the time and resources required to get an auction house up and running.

I like how you say all of this so certainly as if you are a member of aNet's programing team. We did not help in the encoding of the Guild Wars system. We do not know what is or is not reasonably available on the current design. The end.

Inde · May 23, 2007, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Another part of this that I haven't seen anyone explore yet is that NCSoft could be holding it back?? I know that in Asheron's Call 2 they were handed down some strict guidelines (that ultimately made the game fail but that's a different topic) from their publisher Microsoft. Silly things such as: no entering buildings, no quest longer then 1 hour, no trap doors or complicated dungeons of that sort, etc. etc.

Maybe NCSoft plays a factor.

shirosae · May 23, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

There is a HUGE difference between building basically static pages and a game streaming real time keeping synchronization between you and everyone else in a town. Monstrously huge. Very not small.

GWGuru isn't basically static pages. Every post and thread is stored in a database and pulled by (probably) php. All of the user data is in there too. Everything you're reading is stored as a number of entries in a database table, and it's pulled from there every time someone opens the page.

Download WAMP or some other webserver (if you run Windows), and install some forum software on it and see for yourself exactly how an application pulls data from a database.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaje vhanli

I like how you say all of this so certainly as if you are a member of aNet's programing team. We did not help in the encoding of the Guild Wars system. We do not know what is or is not reasonably available on the current design. The end.

What part do you disagree with? The bit where i applaud Anets sheer brilliance in technical game design and server setup?

We do know what is currently available on the current design.

Anet rolls out updates without kicking us offline. They allow people to play with multiple builds of the game at the same time. They dynamically adjust the number of instances to allow for overcrowding. That says a huge amount about their network setup.

A webserver can easily provide the function of an auction house - there's one as part of this forum. There is no way in hell that an auction house is beyond their abilty. The only assumption i'm making is that they're not incredibly inept idiots who just got lucky with Guild Wars.

adderworks · May 23, 2007, 11:08 PM // 23:08

I think it is has everything to do with the lack of advanced crafting in the game. Why bother with an Auction House when it is going to be mostly weapon mods , rare crafting materials, and weapons as the primary items? Armor is locked, so that is a non-starter. The traders handle the rare materials. The last few items sell ok if you can stand to spam the channel for a while. There is really is nothing to fuel an Auction system in terms of economy.

MSecorsky · May 23, 2007, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by shirosae

GWGuru isn't basically static pages. Every post and thread is stored in a database and pulled by (probably) php. All of the user data is in there too. Everything you're reading is stored as a number of entries in a database table, and it's pulled from there every time someone opens the page.

Download WAMP or some other webserver (if you run Windows), and install some forum software on it and see for yourself exactly how an application pulls data from a database.

Still apples and oranges. I build pages that access data from a mainframe through a middleware product for display on the web. Sure, there's dynamic retrieval, but you wind up with static HTML when all's said and done. You have the difference between data being retrieved only on certain actions (clicks) compared to the continual updating across multiple systems (like everyone in your party or town). No comparison.

Melody Cross · May 23, 2007, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Thank you for your reply VitisVinifera. I actually liked the idea too. So much that i decided to post it in the suggestions forum

I don't want to hijack this one, but I would like to link my thread if it is okay:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10160441

I doubt it is all just a matter of money, but that is surely a factor. Putting in an auction house is certainly possible. Anything is possible if you spend enough time and money on it. I wish people would stop talking about how easy and inexpensive it would be to put one in though. If it was cheap and easy, I'm sure they'd do it. Just like they've made all the other extras to keep their customers happy.

Please don't think they don't make an auction house out of laziness or spite. Happy gamers tell their friends about their great game. And then their friends buy it too. Global buy/sell ability is a long discussed subject that devs have taken notice of many times and commented on in every known forum. If they could do it they would.

shirosae · May 23, 2007, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Still apples and oranges. I build pages that access data from a mainframe through a middleware product for display on the web. Sure, there's dynamic retrieval, but you wind up with static HTML when all's said and done. You have the difference between data being retrieved only on certain actions (clicks) compared to the continual updating across multiple systems (like everyone in your party or town). No comparison.

It doesn't need to update continually. All it needs to do is pull data on refresh - the same way rune and material vendors already do.

Occasionally you would try to buy that last item only to find it's no longer there - exactly the same way that it occasionally happened with runes right after the release of Nightfall - which is hardly an auction house killing problem.

TreeDude · May 23, 2007, 11:44 PM // 23:44

My guess is probably midway through the completion of Nightfall They decided the games engine wasn't up to the task to keep creating new content and have it still be fresh. So the decision was made to start on GW2, release 1 more expansion and move on. I don't think anyone came blame them. Not having the ablility to run, jump, swim, and climb means things can get pretty repetitive. Which is why many people have left the game for WoW or another MMO.

So maybe they had been working on an AH in or around that time. But realising that it would be a big investment.So it could have been moved over to GW2 instead. When you can implement something from the start it is much easier and less costly. Again, I can't blame them (if this was the case).

If GW2 doesn't have an AH or something similar then I might complain. But I'm going to enjoy my last months with GW and look on to GW2 when it is released. I'm not gonna waste my time missing something I never had.

Though maybe we will get something when GW:EN is released. But I'm not gonna get my hopes up.

pigdestroyer · May 24, 2007, 12:21 AM // 00:21

It wont be worth anets time, effort etc.

honesty you can just use trade forums here or in other GW fansites, I alway get what I need in those, and sell some stuff through them too.

Gregslot · May 24, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

Wow, you allways have something to complain about.
Give it a break.

Not happy? Go do something else!

Cacheelma · May 24, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Another part of this that I haven't seen anyone explore yet is that NCSoft could be holding it back?? I know that in Asheron's Call 2 they were handed down some strict guidelines (that ultimately made the game fail but that's a different topic) from their publisher Microsoft. Silly things such as: no entering buildings, no quest longer then 1 hour, no trap doors or complicated dungeons of that sort, etc. etc.

Maybe NCSoft plays a factor.

I doubt it.

You know? From the latest NCSoft's Financial report of this year, their income from Guild Wars is far more than that of City of Heroes. And that's BEFORE City of Heroes got a huge invention system AND a Consignment House system.

Why o why?

If it's because such system would result in reduced income from GW, wouldn't it mean that income from City of Heroes (which was low to begin with) would also be decreased with such system as well?

Also, I don't think it's because GW server is global. Why? Because the Consignment House of City of Heroes is also GLOBAL. It links all servers, those in US and those in EU, together in one system so you can buy stuff that were put on sell by any people from any servers.

So what's the reason? I think it's because GW item system is too complicated, as someone has suggested. No NCSoft conspiracy whatsoever.

Bryant Again · May 24, 2007, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

So what's the reason? I think it's because GW item system is too complicated, as someone has suggested. No NCSoft conspiracy whatsoever.

I'm starting to lean towards that view, as well.

I used to think that an Auction House would totally help Guild Wars a lot. But it really wouldn't be much different. There would still be a large amount of overpriced and/or useless items.

One, if not the reason that the Guild Wars item system is so complicated is that the price is mostly dependent on the rarity of the skin.

Winterclaw · May 24, 2007, 05:47 AM // 05:47

To all you people saying it's technological, I think you are wrong. A number of other games have auction houses. Even GWG has an auction page.

It isn't a copyright thing either because games before WoW had an auction house as well. I seem to remember FFXI having one.

My guess is it is resources and a different priority. They listen to players on some things, but it took them a year and a half to add white dye and more storage. Players have asked for other things as well only to have things fall on deaf ears.

Cookie Cookie Cookie · May 24, 2007, 06:23 AM // 06:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zappa

Nothing simpler: Arrange a small "trading" area in hub towns, where you could open your private shop, with a limit of 4 or 5 items (non-stack) . I don't think this would have the AH limitations, since it's just a variant of the trade window we have today. I don't get it why they haven't thought about this earlier.

I think this was what ROSE Online had, and instead of a chat box full of spam, you had cities full of people with boxes all over their heads, and boy, was there lag.